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Old 02-18-2010, 05:29 PM   #61
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Default Re: Better Moderator Feedback!

I agree completely. Some of my threads and the threads of my friends have been deleted with no hint at all, and it's offensive- like our work doesn't mean a thing. My friend worked on a club for a few hours once and it was unwarned and deleted, with no trace, with no given reason. I think we, as active WI members, deserve a bit of simple common courtesy- maybe, if a thread doesn't violate rules and is just a duplicate, it could be closed with a PM to the owner instead. That way the member can save their work until the current thread inevitably closes, where then they can post their creation. A private message explaining some minor points that made a thread deleted do to minor rule breakage would be kind as well, and I know how many times I've been rejected for the GT- I'd like to at least know exactly What I should improve on. However, nothing above means that MOD's don't do a great job- they are great volunteers for our community that could not exist without them. But a tad bit of respectful notice would make this site even better.
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Old 02-18-2010, 07:31 PM   #62
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Default Re: Better Moderator Feedback!

View Post Originally Posted by tinybluesmiley
I agree with your suggestions, JustDad. It would be nice to just warn the owners of a thread before closing it.

Plus, a few weeks or months back, the MMWF threads were merged and no one knew why until we all started PMing mods and administrators. We found out that it was done on purpose to prevent clutter. It really got us confused, though. It would have been nice to have been told about the merge before it happened.
Sorry, but owners of threads will not be told before a thread is closed. If it's closed by staff, that's for a reason. Telling someone ahead of time would not change the outcome. If your intention is to change the thread so that it doesn't have to be closed, you can always start a new one. The tracking problems for staff to remember whom we contacted, and then checking the thread for revisions, etc -- it would be an administrative nightmare.

Regarding the MMWF issue, that was an entirely different matter. Staff was cleaning up, and it caused unexpected problems with some of the merging. We corrected the matter where we could, but that incident is not reflective of things that typically happen here. I personally helped several members straighten out their threads and preserve material they thought was lost or misplaced, I know other staff did as well.


View Post Originally Posted by Squeecky540
I agree completely. Some of my threads and the threads of my friends have been deleted with no hint at all, and it's offensive- like our work doesn't mean a thing. My friend worked on a club for a few hours once and it was unwarned and deleted, with no trace, with no given reason. I think we, as active WI members, deserve a bit of simple common courtesy- maybe, if a thread doesn't violate rules and is just a duplicate, it could be closed with a PM to the owner instead. That way the member can save their work until the current thread inevitably closes, where then they can post their creation. A private message explaining some minor points that made a thread deleted do to minor rule breakage would be kind as well, and I know how many times I've been rejected for the GT- I'd like to at least know exactly What I should improve on. However, nothing above means that MOD's don't do a great job- they are great volunteers for our community that could not exist without them. But a tad bit of respectful notice would make this site even better.
Your comment here seems to suggest that we are not being respectful. I have to take issue with that. I would not normally speak for everyone on staff, but on this one matter I will -- we respect our members more than you will ever know. We would not be doing this difficult job as volunteers if we didn't think WI was an awesome community with great members.

You may not always agree with our choices or our methods, but please don't ever say that we think your work isn't worth anything, and that we don't provide common courtesies. None of us would ever think that.

I think your choice of words in the above post are extreme.
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Old 02-19-2010, 09:59 AM   #63
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Default Re: Better Moderator Feedback!

I think that this whole discussion boils down to two concerns.

CONCERN A: Should members be notified when their threads are closed?

I think that it is pretty clear that the Moderators have answered this one. The answer is no. They have limited time and there are way too many duplicate threads out there. Closing duplicate threads keeps all the conversation in one place, and prevents confusion.

I hereby move that we stop discussing Concern A. This has been answered multiple times in this thread.


CONCERN B: Should there be some sort of form reject letter for the GE Application Process?

I think that this one is still worthy of discussion. As some of you may know, I am a professionally published short story author. I've also been a slush pile reader. The "slush pile" are the unsolicited submissions of stories that a magazine gets. Often times that magazine will get thousands of submissions in a given month, but only have eight or nine slots for stories they can publish. To conserve precious resources, most magazines rely on form rejections for all but the one or two stories that "almost" made it that month.

Having the form reject saves the magazine time because it staves off queries from writers of "What is the status of my story submission?"

In the case of rejections with check off lists, it helps writers improve and make a better submission the next time around.

I loved JustDad's suggested checkoff list. Not having been a moderator for WI, I don't what else may be missing from it, but I think that this could be a great start. I believe that it would clear up the confusion that surrounds GE applications, and would save precious moderator time in the long run.

I sincerely hope that this proposal is considered.

Thanks for listening,

Hmm


View Post Originally Posted by JustDad

I FULLY agree with you that "...it is partially the applicant's responsibility to take the intiative and try to adjust their ways of posting/behavior that caused them to not be accepted..." but that is I feel exactly the reason why quick feedback is so important. Consider the following theroteical example:
I applied but my application was rejected because of the way I phrased things my posts. The wording in my posts was considered to be ofensive.

Since that is just thay way I phrase things, not knowing any better I assume that it was that no TGE was available. I am unaware of the real reason my application was unsuccessful.

I just go making the same type posts, and continue 'hurting' other members with my posts.

Two weeks later I apply again and I am rejected again.
Now let's use the same example BUT this time feed is provided.
I applied but my application was rejected because of the way I phrased things my posts. The wording in my posts was considered to be ofensive.

I receive a PM back simpy stating 'Your Application was REJECTED. Some of your posts were considered offensive.'

The responsibility is now mine to go back over my posts... which I do. I notice that some of ways I phrased things could be seen as harse and critical of others input.

Now I know what is wrong, so I make sure that my posts are less critical. No longer do I 'hurt' other members with my posts.

Two weeks later I apply again and I am accepted.
Not only with feedback is the applicant successfull the second time around, but in fact the WI community as a whole is improved since a once 'hurtfull' poster has been reformed.

I am not suggesting a detailed, but rather a simlple 'check box' response on a standard 'form letter' along the following lines:
"We are sorry, but your appication for the GE has been rejected because:

[ X ] Certain posts were Rude and/or Offensive.

[ _ ] Do not have 50 non fluff posts

[ _ ] Non fluff posts were not in appropriate forums (e.g. Look What I Got)

[ _ ] Unwillingness to work with moderators.

[ _ ] No demonstration of willingness to help others.

[ _ ] No slots available in the TGE

Once you at least two weeks have passed AND you have made 50 additional non fluff posts AND any concerns identified above have been addressed you wll be elegable to reapply."
On an average day how many GE applications are received? From checking the GE application thread just the oldest post is for the 12th, and there are only 7 new applicants which woould suggest that on average there are less than 2/day.

BTW although the thread has gravatated towards a discussion of GE application feedback, it was priompted primarily by confusion over why one thread had been closed while other very simalar threads were still open. I then had the thought 'hey when a post was closed i the closing comment stated the reason why it would be a great educating tool - if it was closeed for being offensive for example I could read over it and see what was inappropriate and inversely what was acceptable."
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Old 02-23-2010, 09:53 AM   #64
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Default Re: Better Moderator Feedback!

Sorry, but I don't agree with this. Don't you think that the Staff have so much to do, already? Another way, is to just PM them and ask them why your thread was closed. In my opinion, going through closed threads and sending PMs (explaining why the thread was closed) all day, just sounds a little frustrating. Don't you think?
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Old 02-23-2010, 10:23 AM   #65
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Default Re: Better Moderator Feedback!

Yesterday, I started a thread that contained inappropriate information. The thread was removed promptly (and properly). No offence intended and none taken.
Monitoring a site as large as WI is time consuming and voluntary. I applaud the moderators and thank them for helping us keep WI straight. Their efforts made WI into the type of site that attacted our attention in the first place.
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Old 02-23-2010, 11:11 AM   #66
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Default Re: Better Moderator Feedback!

View Post Originally Posted by JustDad

I FULLY agree with you that "...it is partially the applicant's responsibility to take the intiative and try to adjust their ways of posting/behavior that caused them to not be accepted..." but that is I feel exactly the reason why quick feedback is so important. Consider the following theroteical example:
I applied but my application was rejected because of the way I phrased things my posts. The wording in my posts was considered to be ofensive.

Since that is just thay way I phrase things, not knowing any better I assume that it was that no TGE was available. I am unaware of the real reason my application was unsuccessful.

I just go making the same type posts, and continue 'hurting' other members with my posts.

Two weeks later I apply again and I am rejected again.
Now let's use the same example BUT this time feed is provided.
I applied but my application was rejected because of the way I phrased things my posts. The wording in my posts was considered to be ofensive.

I receive a PM back simpy stating 'Your Application was REJECTED. Some of your posts were considered offensive.'

The responsibility is now mine to go back over my posts... which I do. I notice that some of ways I phrased things could be seen as harse and critical of others input.

Now I know what is wrong, so I make sure that my posts are less critical. No longer do I 'hurt' other members with my posts.

Two weeks later I apply again and I am accepted.
Not only with feedback is the applicant successfull the second time around, but in fact the WI community as a whole is improved since a once 'hurtfull' poster has been reformed.

I am not suggesting a detailed, but rather a simlple 'check box' response on a standard 'form letter' along the following lines:
"We are sorry, but your appication for the GE has been rejected because:

[ X ] Certain posts were Rude and/or Offensive.

[ _ ] Do not have 50 non fluff posts

[ _ ] Non fluff posts were not in appropriate forums (e.g. Look What I Got)

[ _ ] Unwillingness to work with moderators.

[ _ ] No demonstration of willingness to help others.

[ _ ] No slots available in the TGE

Once you at least two weeks have passed AND you have made 50 additional non fluff posts AND any concerns identified above have been addressed you wll be elegable to reapply."
On an average day how many GE applications are received? From checking the GE application thread just the oldest post is for the 12th, and there are only 7 new applicants which woould suggest that on average there are less than 2/day.

BTW although the thread has gravatated towards a discussion of GE application feedback, it was priompted primarily by confusion over why one thread had been closed while other very simalar threads were still open. I then had the thought 'hey when a post was closed i the closing comment stated the reason why it would be a great educating tool - if it was closeed for being offensive for example I could read over it and see what was inappropriate and inversely what was acceptable."
I love the form. I would think (not knowing all that goes on behind the scenes) that having a form to send via PM would be great. I would think they keep notes on those applying and if rejected, the reason why. That way if that person applied again, they'd know why rejected the first go around and could check to see if that improved/changed.

As to threads that get removed/closed - most of the time it's redundancy. Or even someone else posted something rude/inappropriate on it.
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Old 02-23-2010, 02:04 PM   #67
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Default Re: Better Moderator Feedback!

I completely and UTTERLY agree with you. We should get a bit more reasoning when our threads are closed and applications rejected.
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Old 02-23-2010, 02:12 PM   #68
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Default Re: Better Moderator Feedback!

Hmm has a point regarding where to be most usefull future discussion on this thread should focus. I will update the opening thread accordingly.
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Old 02-23-2010, 02:23 PM   #69
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Default Re: Better Moderator Feedback!

View Post Originally Posted by JustDad
Hmm has a point regarding where to be most usefull future discussion on this thread should focus. I will update the opening thread accordingly.
I agree.

Has anyone asked a Mod about any of this? Like COWS?
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Old 02-23-2010, 02:23 PM   #70
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Default Re: Better Moderator Feedback!

View Post Originally Posted by JustDad
Hmm has a point regarding where to be most usefull future discussion on this thread should focus. I will update the opening thread accordingly.
Sounds like a good idea. Maybe you should update the title as well to reflect the narrowed focus of discussion?

-- Hmm
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