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Old 08-11-2015, 12:39 PM   #11
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Default Re: Conversing Trades on WI

View Post Originally Posted by gifted9
I agree with MissGnomie in that the addition of a free-for-all trading program on WI would be an unmanageable change for our current situation. I also think it would create a divide on WI of "open forum traders" and "GE traders" -- hostility is not something we want.

However, I see how this could work in harmony with robertcleveland's idea of crowdsourced training for the GE: What if the TGE were open to everyone? Aspiring GE members would trade in there with each other, while those of us who have already been through the closed TGE program would guide, watch, and advise. If a trainee seemed ready to move up, members of the GE could serve as a sort of jury to give their verdict, but a Coach, Mod, or Admin would have the final say as the "judge." I'm not a Guru, but I have over six years of GE experience under my belt; I would be very much willing to help out if it meant the revival of the GE.

I understand that when the GE was new, it had such lenient requirements that there might as well not have been any. I've seen the GE threads made in 2007; they're positively chaotic compared to post-TGE threads. However, with both WW and WI way past their glory days, it's time to rethink something that was as integral as our GE once was. Webkinz is no longer a fad; there is a much higher proportion of serious and adult players than there was back then.

It would have been a ridiculous suggestion five years ago, but I truly think that crowdsourcing training is the way to go now. The site is already moving in that direction: the WIki is completely composed of member contributions, the WIGEV is now crowdsourced, and even forum moderation relies heavily on user-submitted red flags.

There are many activities in real life that have no official governing body: for example, recreational scuba diving is not covered by any national or international law. I am legally allowed to buy a tank and regulator from eBay and a plane ticket to Nova Scotia to check out all their sick shipwrecks without any training whatsoever. I can't do this, though, because no dive boat, all of which are independently operated, would be willing to take me out to sea without any training. There are no official training benchmarks, either -- there is literally a Wikipedia page listing notable dive certification organisations, all of which have different schools of thought, yet are recognised all over the world. The most dangerous hobby I can think of is almost completely self-regulated. Why not WI's GE?
Actually this is one of the best ideas I have seen posted here yet.
We shod open up the Gifted Training Section to all Webkinz status members, but gifted people should get to keep their gifted status and stuff, so gifted people still get to see the main gift exchange area, and all webkinz members get to see the training section, and I am sure many gifted members will go to the training section to trade with the new members.
There should be some way that eventually they can gain Gifted status though.
And it would be awesome if they reopened GG applications so us gifted can gain Gift Guru.

And if there really was a user causing a problem I am sure the admins can ban them from trading.
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Old 08-11-2015, 04:15 PM   #12
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Default Re: Conversing Trades on WI

This is a wonderful idea. I have not traded in the Trade Rooms for a few years now because of all the scamming. I have been using the ones on FB which are really nice and safe. This would be great for WI. Thank you for all your work on this.
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Old 08-11-2015, 06:02 PM   #13
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Default Re: Conversing Trades on WI

Hi everyone,
Normally I read these types of threads and do not make a comment. People can easily get hurt feelings and have unresolved conflicts. My intentions are to give my suggestions on this very important topic.

My strong suggestion is to leave things the way they are with WI trading for now.

The Reasons:
1. You can not trade items that are "incomplete" or "missing" without causing angry members.
Since Webkinz X was installed, there are hundreds of items that are "glitched". There are 384 items on the WW fixed list. There are hundreds more to be fixed. Many items are not on the WW official lists of "incomplete" or "missing" items.

2. Items are currently stuck in storage units that do not open or are invisible in their rooms.
Many members do not even have a list of their problem items. This is very hard to do when an item is invisible in the room.

3. Some items have one title and an incompatible picture.
How do you know which one to trade? When the item is fixed by the programmers, a buyer and seller could have the wrong items.

4. Duplicate items disappear in Kinzpost.
When multiple copies of a item are sent by KinzPost they sometimes disappear.
http://www.webkinzinsider.com/forum/...nzpost-802765/

5. Areas of WW can not be played
Many areas have problems that prevent the member from earning any prizes that are useful for trading. The following areas are some examples: Adventure Park (Quick Daily Quests are waiting on steps that are blocked) , Alyssa's Star Challenge (does not save stars), KinzVille Academy Recess (the wheel will not spin), Mazin Hamsters, and Soccer Challenge (can't do at all). These are just some of the examples.

My alternative suggestion is for everyone to work together to test and report all problems to the WW staff.

The Reasons:
1. Test all areas of WW in a organized way.
Take it one step at a time. For example, we could take each theme and check the items to see if they are complete and visible. We could play in the different areas to see if it is working ok.

2. Send all problems to WW staff.
We can use emails with links to the glitch reports. Some members have Facebook accounts or personal relationships that may get better results.

3. It is unlikely that Ganz has the staff to get this project done without some help. If they did, Webkinz X would have been released with less programming errors.

4. The WI members are smart, experienced, and kind people who would be able to document the problems and verify any fixes.

5. Return to the trading discussion after the above problems are corrected.

I hope we can all work together to make WW a better game for all. Thank you for your time and consideration.

See you later,
Auntie
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Old 08-11-2015, 06:36 PM   #14
 
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Default Re: Conversing Trades on WI

I'm in the process of replying to some eMails, printing things off for a meeting tomorrow, etc. So I am going to apologize if this isn't as coherent and through as everyone may be use to...lol. My brain is elsewhere.

Desty, the very suggestion you made (sorry in your first reply) is what we had on Free Realms Insider. It worked, some weeks, other weeks it was a jumbled mess. I think part of the problem was that people who came from other insider sites are use to the staff being involved, supervising, helping with values, etc. Even with the notice clearly posted it was expected that we would moderate and step into trades. Unfortunately it didn't work out, so it would be finding that balance that is difficult.

Robert, there is little doubt that we could condense or change the training program. I think the question with that is how much time it would take to create that condensed program, train the people overseeing it, etc. If we went that way, you would still want to ensure we have some consistency with what we are teaching. That is one thing we strived for in the gifted training program as coaches (speaking from my experience as a coach there) was consistency with the trading rules.

Gifted9, again the problem is not that we are against transitioning the trading aspect of WI. It is how we find the balance between what members expect (a protected, fair, trading practice) and allowing a more open trading area (free-for-all, crowd sourced trading practice, etc. for example). And then the transitioning of the forum rules, staff, etc. to that practice.

It's not that we don't trust our GGs -- who for the most part, are a great set of traders -- but that is a huge responsibility for everyone, a big change, and one that we want to move to carefully. Even with the gift guru system, ranked traders, open trading on forums (not via PMs unless guru), training, etc. we *still* had people who scammed our members - including gurus - so with all of those protections in place we had problems. But they were resolved as quickly and effectively as possible. There are members who are gifted now have an expectation that this practice will continue, and we want to find the balance between that "open trading" we had on other Insider sites (Free Realms specifically) and the "Gifted" trading we have on WI, etc.

It is consistently a conversation that is happening between the staff, and ideas are out there (not uncommon to what you have all suggested), we are just not at the point where we are comfortable making that switch with the least amount of turbulence possible.

What I can say is that two tier trading is not a system we are looking to create. It will either be a modified version of the Gift Exchange, which would see us going back to accepting members without training or an entire new system. Many members have suggested opening the Gift Exchange applications and returning to entry without training, but the problem with this is that an administrator is required to review applications, and I don't have time to do that with my school year starting in just a few weeks. That leaves us in the *exact* same position as before, applications would not be reviewed until the holiday break, and even then it would be a slow process (exams, work, etc. would be a barrier).

Look, I get what you are saying. It's not something that we are ignoring, and as I have mentioned 100 times before on these trading threads...when we have a firm solution, we will let you know. Some of the barriers to making it happen this week, or even this month: we would want to ensure that there are staff here to oversee the transition, the rules are clear and conscience, and the forum permissions are set up correctly, etc. This is a busy time of year for us all, and its not the ideal time for it to happen... lol.

Finally, I do want to thank Auntie EW for her post. Thank you for bringing in a very valid point to this discussion. There are problems with the Webkinz X transition, and that would be a rather negative influence to any trading transitions we may make at this time. We don't want to create more problems with this change than we have to, and missing items may lead to accusations of scamming (something the staff really doesn't want to see).
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Old 08-11-2015, 07:48 PM   #15
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Default Re: Conversing Trades on WI

Thanks missgnomie for your post, I just have a question to ask, if you ever did change the Gift Exchange rules, would we at least get to keep our gifted status, because we worked hard for it and went through the training.
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Old 08-12-2015, 12:23 PM   #16
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Default Re: Conversing Trades on WI

Thank you MissGnomie , I was only offering an Idea to maybe help, I have long appreciated all of the time and effort by the staff and coaches , volunteering their time , away from family and friends, there is no Thank You great enough or worthy of the work that all of the staff has done.

Auntie EW is right until the problems and glitches with X are fixed any trading will be problematic, I found today trouble accessing refrigerators in a room , and years ago a disappearance of all of my Wheel of wow shirts, when I had many.

Gifted is also correct in a combined system of open and GE trading ,animosity and resentment will build , on a nice site like WI that will not be a good fit, I have found Insiders to be the most helpful and nice you could ever find, all members of WI should be proud of the example they have set, for any and all to learn from, Thank you everyone at Webkinz Insider for being so nice !!!
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Old 08-13-2015, 11:02 AM   #17
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Default Re: Conversing Trades on WI

Robert, yes I appreciate very greatly the amazing work that the staff have done for the GE over the years. But if nothing is done to allow trading again then all the work of the GE goes to waste, and that would be very sad.
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Old 08-13-2015, 05:22 PM   #18
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Default Re: Conversing Trades on WI

Thanks MissGnomie! I appreciate the need to wait a bit until WW gets the whole Webkinz X thing put together better.
I agree with Matty though, that trading is vital for WI. The trading would revive it. Or the lack of trading will sink it. I hope this issue will be revisited very soon.
It's kind of in the urgent stage at this point here.
Even just allowing people to ask others to meet them in the trading room would be helpful. It's not like people are asking others for their email. It's just meeting up in WW.

Last edited by Desty; 08-13-2015 at 05:26 PM..
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Old 08-13-2015, 06:56 PM   #19
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Default Re: Conversing Trades on WI

View Post Originally Posted by Desty
Thanks MissGnomie! I appreciate the need to wait a bit until WW gets the whole Webkinz X thing put together better.
I agree with Matty though, that trading is vital for WI. The trading would revive it. Or the lack of trading will sink it. I hope this issue will be revisited very soon.
It's kind of in the urgent stage at this point here.
Even just allowing people to ask others to meet them in the trading room would be helpful. It's not like people are asking others for their email. It's just meeting up in WW.
Very well said desty, yes the issue with webkinz need to be fixed first, but eventually this should be revisited. I do believe that trading would revive this site again.
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Old 08-13-2015, 07:21 PM   #20
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Default Re: Conversing Trades on WI

Even if we still wait for WX to get better, we can still plan on how to organize and set up things for a new trading system so that when WX is better members can start trading again immediately because all preparations wouldve been taken care of
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