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Old 03-18-2008, 11:29 AM   #1
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Default [SOLVED] Please help with legal issue.

Hi,
There was a thread recently about people selling and buying virtual items at E-bay. I would post this there, but I can't find it. I thought that this Forum might be appropriate since it does involve trading.
The jest of the original thread was that Ganz had caused E-bay to crack down on this because it was not legal per the user agreement that we signed (but I did not read). I don't know if this came from Ganz or was decided by E-bay to not deal with virtual items. Supposedly, both the buyer and the seller got into trouble and the buyer(s) lost their webkinz account.
There was discussion on Ganz' rights to their intellectual property. I questioned whether we were breaking the agreement by trading these items. Several members and a Moderator as I remember, replied that E-bay was different because people were making money off of it, and here we were just exchanging items. I would like to one day be able to trade here at WI.
I went back and read the user agreement. I am afraid to quote it exactly, but it says something to the effect that virtual items that you earn at the site are not transferable even if it is to another one of your own accounts. Yikes! I have done this and given items as gifts.
I am definitely not a legal expert, and I may have misinterpreted what I did read. But I am very confused. I would like to trade eventually. I would like to continue to send items from one of my accounts to the other (my daughter). But I do not want to lose my account at webkinz. This is a little scary for me because I have invested over a thousand dollars (probably more, but let't not count it up). I practically live at that site, except when I am here.
Did I break the rules? Could I lose my account? Why do they have Kinz Post? That seems like entrapment.
Any advice would be greatly appreciate.
Thanks so much,
Plainlyme
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Old 03-18-2008, 12:20 PM   #2
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Default Re: Please help with legal issue.

Wow! Thats a great post!
It doesnt seem like they would be able to hold any of us at fault for using the kinz post to send things to other WW players. As you asked, WHy would there be kinz post then?
It does seem very weird that they would say we could even send thing to our own accts...or gifts to others.
The fact that we do pay to play (alot as you well know...i'd rather not cout it up on my end either lol, I'm sure none of us would...eekk) & that real money is not being exchanged...They would have a real hard time making a case against posting to others.
*shrug*...Not to mention, they not only provide the kinz post, but they also know of the site like this one that provide safe places for the WW community to come together & to also trade.
Hopefully it nothing. I will be so very disappointed in GAnz if this became something...I know they are a company, therefore want & need to make money, but acting on traders & gift givers would be over board, and for me atleast make Ganz & WW something I wont want to be involved with.
I love my kinz & WI, so lets hope they didnt mean what it sound like!

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Old 03-18-2008, 12:26 PM   #3
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Default Re: Please help with legal issue.

I agree with 1Love, Ganz puts kinzpost on WW, and offers us the abilities to send packages to other members. It is of no harm to them that we offer our objects to other members, or to ourselves. I don't think they could really take away everyone's accounts who has done something like this, they would have to take away almost everyone's accounts, and that would hurt them as a company. I have a feeling they are more discouraging people to trade entire accounts. So that instead of people quitting and giving their account to another person, or with the ebay section. They don't want people to make money off of selling virtual items, because then people will be less willing to purchase real items for 15 or so and the money going to ganz, and spend a few dollars for the virtual item.
Just my thoughts, im in no way saying these are right or that im an expert (im not at all!) but just my interpretation.
Hope we get a real answer though, it would sure be helpful
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Old 03-18-2008, 12:30 PM   #4
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Default Re: Please help with legal issue.

I think the term "not transferable" has a different meaning than the way your are translating it in this case. I think (not certain) that it means that you can not "transfer" (or change the ownership) the rights to your account to another person......Meaning, you cannot sell your account.

You know how when you buy a new electornic or appliance at say...best buy.....and you can also buy an extended warranty from the store. Well that warranty that you paid extra for is yours and yours alone. That means that if you give away or sell the product that the warranty is "non transferable" meaning that the new owner has no warranty and would have to buy their own.

I could be wrong, but that is the way that it translates to me. I don't think that statement has much to do with trading between accounts.
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Old 03-18-2008, 12:45 PM   #5
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Default Re: Please help with legal issue.

I believe WesleyKinz is correct. The transferable in this case refers to ownership. You can't transfer ownership of your items to anyone else because no one really owns their stuff...it all belongs to Ganz. Its not the property of your account...and therefore can't become property of another account...even your own.

I think a key phrase there is "and have no retail or cash value."

Last edited by fairlyoddmom; 03-18-2008 at 12:49 PM..
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Old 03-18-2008, 12:48 PM   #6
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Default Re: Please help with legal issue.

I do believe that the user agreement is referring to the exchange of WW items..(whether it be accounts or virtual items.). for tangible items. Either money or some other "real" item.
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Old 03-18-2008, 01:03 PM   #7
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Default Re: Please help with legal issue.

<p>
View Post Originally Posted by fairlyoddmom
I believe WesleyKinz is correct. The transferable in this case refers to ownership. You can't transfer ownership of your items to anyone else because no one really owns their stuff...it all belongs to Ganz. Its not the property of your account...and therefore can't become property of another account...even your own.</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>I think a key phrase there is &quot;and have no retail or cash value.&quot;
</p>

Does that mean that when we are in the GE or when I send something to my sister or my friends we are breaking the "user agreement"? If they don't want us to do that they why do they have the option of "send a gift" to another member on Kinz post? We do pay for the Webkinz and we do pay for the things we buy in the W-Shop with our own Kinz cash, wouldn't that mean that we own the Item? (I may be wrong... But what the user agreement says does not make any sense! They want five year olds to agree to the terms. Can't they get in to legal trouble for that?)
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Old 03-18-2008, 01:09 PM   #8
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Default Re: Please help with legal issue.

You can exchange the items all you want. Thats not what they're alluding to. They are talking about the actual ownership of the virtual items. Ganz is allowing you to play with their property online. They are not "giving it to you to own." If you technically "owned" it, you could make real money selling it. But ya can't. Those items belong to Ganz...not us.

You can move things around from account to account. I can send you a gift from my account to yours. But when I send you something...I'm sending you GANZ' property...not mine.

Its very technical.
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Old 03-18-2008, 01:14 PM   #9
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Default Re: Please help with legal issue.

Ganz is cracking down hard on Ebay. I bought a card from a woman who was also giving virtual items " as a gift" with winning a card. She got her Ebay account taken away. About a half a year back I bought a Love Puppy couch a woman had made to look like the virtual one on WW. She contacted me telling me her account had been suspended. Not sure why that was against Ganz rules. I really do not see why they care what we do with the items.
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Old 03-18-2008, 01:15 PM   #10
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Default Re: Please help with legal issue.

View Post Originally Posted by luvabug1
<p> </p>

Does that mean that when we are in the GE or when I send something to my sister or my friends we are breaking the "user agreement"? If they don't want us to do that they why do they have the option of "send a gift" to another member on Kinz post? We do pay for the Webkinz and we do pay for the things we buy in the W-Shop with our own Kinz cash, wouldn't that mean that we own the Item? (I may be wrong... But what the user agreement says does not make any sense! They want five year olds to agree to the terms. Can't they get in to legal trouble for that?)
Exchanging virtual items between accounts does not break the "user agreement". You never "owned" that item to begin with..Ganz does. Because of this fact... you cannot exchange a virtual item for a tangible item (i.e money) because it is not yours to sell. Your WW account is not "owned" by you either.
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