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Old 10-27-2009, 12:00 AM   #201
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Default Re: EXCLUSIVE: Ganz's Official Statement On Account Bannings in Webkinz World!

View Post Originally Posted by Vary
I'd have thought it was obvious: money that people spend on buying hard-to-find virtual items 'secondhand' is frequently money they won't spend buying legit Webkinz merch. But whether Ganz loses money or not is irrelevant; per the user agreement, the items on your account belong to Ganz, not you. It's their game, the pixels are their pixels, so if they say you can't buy and sell those virtual items, you can't, and they're within their rights to terminate your account if they're able to verify that you did. We can trade to our hearts' content, but we can't exchange virtual Webkinz items for anything but other virtual Webkinz items.
Apples and oranges. This site walks the fair use line quite well, and even if Ganz was stupid enough to try to take legal action to force the site to close, I don't think they'd have much grounds. WI deals in information, not virtual items, and not Ganz's actual intellectual property. It is not the same thing as buying and selling items that per the the UA are not yours to buy and sell.
It would appear that there is some confusion about our case for the "re-sellers" topic:

1) As per several of the previous posts - we were not condoning the duplication of intellectual property. Let's be clear on that point.

2) Opportunity costs are not a measurable or valid business expense and cannot be written off on the business financials for tax purposes as a business loss in the US. I thought my reference to a 1020S made that obvious. It’s pure theory and as "Vary" mentioned - irrelevant but seems to be the sticky point.

3) The case being made in favor of re-sellers was this: what is the difference between an individual that bought a webkinz with a virtual tag attached at a retail store (for instance: buy one, get one free) and resold one of the items on Ebay for a profit versus someone that bought an e-store virtual item and re-sold that item on Ebay?

Both cases are second tier profits made off of the popularity of the WW site. As is the advertising revenue paid by Nissan, Verizon, AT&T, Invisalign, etc. earned by this website which I assume would cease to exist should WW dissolve. How do you fairly and objectively police the activity to determine if the item was gifted or sold?

By the way, Jerkinz I was not aware that this is run by a not-for-profit organization. I don't see that stated anywhere on this site but perhaps I missed it. Subscriber donations may be used to maintain servers but what happens to the ad revenue? The site holds contests encouraging everyone to log in on a given day (giving away WW intellectual property I might add as the carrot) and is in and of itself benefiting by re-distributing WW "pixels" in order to generate higher traffic thereby leading to higher advertising $$ from the sponsors thus, potentially luring away disposable income from Webkinz purchases to be spent on Verizon Text Messaging Plans or Duluth jeans. Therfore, one could argue this site is just as guilty as the re-sellers of redirecting profits for their own benefit.

Don’t get me wrong – I am making the case FOR them not against them. Personally, I think all of these folks are quite clever. Just pointing out the potential for hypocrisy.

And can someone please tell me who the heck "Spookhousedave" is???? LOL!!
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Old 10-27-2009, 09:09 AM   #202
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Default Re: EXCLUSIVE: Ganz's Official Statement On Account Bannings in Webkinz World!

View Post Originally Posted by tzugirl2000
It would appear that there is some confusion about our case for the "re-sellers" topic:

1) As per several of the previous posts - we were not condoning the duplication of intellectual property. Let's be clear on that point.

2) Opportunity costs are not a measurable or valid business expense and cannot be written off on the business financials for tax purposes as a business loss in the US. I thought my reference to a 1020S made that obvious. It’s pure theory and as "Vary" mentioned - irrelevant but seems to be the sticky point.
I don't know about anyone else, but I never said you were advocating duplication. I mentioned intellectual property only in response to your 'slippery slope' comment implying that Ganz might try to shut down a site like WI using the same arguments being used here against TOS-violating online sales of virtual items.

It may not be possible to write off opportunity costs, but that doesn't mean that they don't constitute a loss, or that it's ethical to resell something that you've agreed (since using the game constitutes consent to the user agreement) does not belong to you. A company defends against opportunity costs from lost sales by competitors by trying to make a better product at a better price (yes, that's an oversimplification, but you get the point). If people chose to buy the competitor's product instead, oh well, that's capitalism for you. But we're talking about people selling items that belong to Ganz, not them. The best way to defend against those losses is by going after the illicit sellers - although the e-store is no doubt a response as well.
View Post Originally Posted by tzugirl2000
3) The case being made in favor of re-sellers was this: what is the difference between an individual that bought a webkinz with a virtual tag attached at a retail store (for instance: buy one, get one free) and resold one of the items on Ebay for a profit versus someone that bought an e-store virtual item and re-sold that item on Ebay?

Both cases are second tier profits made off of the popularity of the WW site. As is the advertising revenue paid by Nissan, Verizon, AT&T, Invisalign, etc. earned by this website which I assume would cease to exist should WW dissolve. How do you fairly and objectively police the activity to determine if the item was gifted or sold?

By the way, Jerkinz I was not aware that this is run by a not-for-profit organization. I don't see that stated anywhere on this site but perhaps I missed it. Subscriber donations may be used to maintain servers but what happens to the ad revenue? The site holds contests encouraging everyone to log in on a given day (giving away WW intellectual property I might add as the carrot) and is in and of itself benefiting by re-distributing WW "pixels" in order to generate higher traffic thereby leading to higher advertising $$ from the sponsors thus, potentially luring away disposable income from Webkinz purchases to be spent on Verizon Text Messaging Plans or Duluth jeans. Therfore, one could argue this site is just as guilty as the re-sellers of redirecting profits for their own benefit.

Don’t get me wrong – I am making the case FOR them not against them. Personally, I think all of these folks are quite clever. Just pointing out the potential for hypocrisy.
Did Jerkinz say the site was a Not-for-Profit? I only saw her say the site 'makes no profit', in that the money it brings in equals the money spent to keep it online. I don't personally know for a fact that that's true, but it's not the same as claiming they're a non-profit, is it?

The difference between the two types of secondary market, as I said before, is that the plushie, and the untouched code attached to it, belong to you. Items inside the site that only live on Ganz's servers do not. If Ganz asks WI not to use virtual items as prizes, I'm sure they'll stop, but these contests look acceptable to me, based on the statement about VI sales that Ganz posted a while back. There just isn't any hypocrisy in using (or running) a site like this one and being opposed to the sale of virtual items. Those sales violate the terms of use of the game. This site does not.
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Old 10-27-2009, 03:29 PM   #203
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Thumbs down Re: EXCLUSIVE: Ganz's Official Statement On Account Bannings in Webkinz World!

OMG I had no idea ganz cared
i diden't do it though those people who did
YOU ARE BAD AAAAAACCCCCCCCCKKKKKKKK
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Old 10-27-2009, 03:56 PM   #204
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Default Re: EXCLUSIVE: Ganz's Official Statement On Account Bannings in Webkinz World!

View Post Originally Posted by Vary
I don't know about anyone else, but I never said you were advocating duplication. I mentioned intellectual property only in response to your 'slippery slope' comment implying that Ganz might try to shut down a site like WI using the same arguments being used here against TOS-violating online sales of virtual items.

It may not be possible to write off opportunity costs, but that doesn't mean that they don't constitute a loss, or that it's ethical to resell something that you've agreed (since using the game constitutes consent to the user agreement) does not belong to you. A company defends against opportunity costs from lost sales by competitors by trying to make a better product at a better price (yes, that's an oversimplification, but you get the point). If people chose to buy the competitor's product instead, oh well, that's capitalism for you. But we're talking about people selling items that belong to Ganz, not them. The best way to defend against those losses is by going after the illicit sellers - although the e-store is no doubt a response as well.
Did Jerkinz say the site was a Not-for-Profit? I only saw her say the site 'makes no profit', in that the money it brings in equals the money spent to keep it online. I don't personally know for a fact that that's true, but it's not the same as claiming they're a non-profit, is it?

The difference between the two types of secondary market, as I said before, is that the plushie, and the untouched code attached to it, belong to you. Items inside the site that only live on Ganz's servers do not. If Ganz asks WI not to use virtual items as prizes, I'm sure they'll stop, but these contests look acceptable to me, based on the statement about VI sales that Ganz posted a while back. There just isn't any hypocrisy in using (or running) a site like this one and being opposed to the sale of virtual items. Those sales violate the terms of use of the game. This site does not.
Actually, I'm a guy ,


Anyways, I completely agree with you. You know, if WI and it's advertisers were taking away business from Ganz, you'd think they would have gone after us by now.

One last thing,
many members have said WI has kept them interested in Webkinz, I for one, am one of them.
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Old 10-27-2009, 04:27 PM   #205
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Default Re: EXCLUSIVE: Ganz's Official Statement On Account Bannings in Webkinz World!

View Post Originally Posted by Jerkinz
Actually, I'm a guy
Whoops, sorry, should have checked.
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Old 10-27-2009, 06:08 PM   #206
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Default Re: EXCLUSIVE: Ganz's Official Statement On Account Bannings in Webkinz World!

Wow they are going after those that are doing all the duplicating??

ummm my kid can barely get through the first level of some of these games and they have banned her account! I was in it earlier and the only thing I did was click on their ghost and now she can't log in!

Permanently banned for violating what?! I clicked on a ghost in the trade (only place I can find it) and now you ban her.

THANKS FOR NOTHING GANZ


She's not even six and you just made her completely upset now because she can't play.

she worked really hard today doing her school work just so she could have a couple extra hours to play and now.. nothing..

Working on new features? you mean the ones that don't work?? You didn't know?? Liar! I personally called and informed you of the particular website that was selling webkinz items over 9 months ago!! and you're just now getting around to it. Wow so many things just don't add up.......


In all honesty... if they keep this up I will be more than happy to ban Webkinz all together and when ever I go to my local retailer that sells webkinz, I will tell ANYONE buying not to and to go elsewhere. Like build a bearville. At least they treat their customers right..


I will be contacting Ganz tomorrow about my daughter's account... I will let you know what they say..

Also what is the difference if I buy an estore item and then find that I don't want it after all and all I want to do is at least get my money back (breaking even) by "selling" it to someone else that will enjoy it? I mean seriously. I have made some impulsive purchases only to find out I didn't like it and am now stuck with it.

I still have the code but I didn't enter it. If I could trade out the blasted thing at least I know that SOMEONE can be happy with it...

Last edited by theacate; 10-27-2009 at 06:08 PM..
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Old 10-27-2009, 06:09 PM   #207
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Default Re: EXCLUSIVE: Ganz's Official Statement On Account Bannings in Webkinz World!

Just to let everyone know my childs account was just banned today, we don't allow our child to trade or chat just does games and collect things. Rarly plays anymore, but for who knows what reason Good 'ol Ganz banned the account which is also a Deluxe account. So don't think your safe and it won't happen to you if a child under 6 can get their account banned when they just play games then it shows Ganz is out just banning anyone for whatever lame reason they wish.

We have spent over $5k (yes way overboard) due to additictons over the last 2 years. Today I am so mad at Ganz I wish it was okay to sell everything because I would sell it all and walk away. I have a ton of eStore stuff. If it wasn't for that I would go out to the trade rooms and just give everything away just to get away from Ganz's horrible policies.. We also play BearVille and FreeRealms. BearVille is much more friendly and has a much better GUI. You don't see virtual items for sale because they make it easy to obtain. I had most of the old retired stuff in a matter of 3 months through trading. And you can find Bears on eBay, I've taken older retired bears into the build-a-bear workshop and they let me adopt them so I could play with them online. That's good business. What's it to them other then to see kids happy. If they are making the money to keep the servers and bandwidth going then who cares?

Then we have FreeRealms by Sony. This is an electronics company that understands collectiables better than Ganz does which is in the business of collectibles. On the offical game forum they have a spot to sell items to other players... duh it only makes since to promote more business. In 6 months Free Realms had over 5 million users.

We are so done with Webkinz/Ganz they have lost their minds and will be losing customers fast!
I fully understand and agree with shutting down hackers and duplicators but I disagree with selling and buying of items. It brings in more users with the desire to collect old retired items and will spend lots of money doing so. Ganz could easily put up a user selling board and they could even profit off that buy charging 2% or 3% of each transaction. I could ramble on and on with how upset I am right now! I would like to find out just how many wrongful bannings Ganz does. I would classify Ganz as the one of the top 10 most greedy companies and they treat their employees horrible, just do some googling around or check out linkedin. Again I have so much retired stuff I wish I could sell it so it wasn't lost from the community but if this is how Ganz wants to treat it's high paying customers or any customers for that matter then I want nothing to do with them. I'll go do business that cares about it's customers.
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Old 10-27-2009, 08:25 PM   #208
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Default Re: EXCLUSIVE: Ganz's Official Statement On Account Bannings in Webkinz World!

Can someone (ANYONE) show me anywhere in their TOS that I cannot GIVE my account to someone....

I cannot find this info anywhere....
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Old 10-27-2009, 09:13 PM   #209
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Default Re: EXCLUSIVE: Ganz's Official Statement On Account Bannings in Webkinz World!

View Post Originally Posted by catekinz
Again I have so much retired stuff I wish I could sell it so it wasn't lost from the community but if this is how Ganz wants to treat it's high paying customers or any customers for that matter then I want nothing to do with them. I'll go do business that cares about it's customers.
You're only helping the items get more priceless, so that in effect, they're more desirable, and Ganz can theoretically earn even more with a one-day-only sale of its replicas.

Sorry about your daughter's account getting banned; glad you have other options you like better! But I think you ought to stand up to Ganz out of principle, even if you don't play anymore, because of the incredible investment you put into WW.
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Old 10-27-2009, 09:25 PM   #210
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Default Re: EXCLUSIVE: Ganz's Official Statement On Account Bannings in Webkinz World!

View Post Originally Posted by theacate
Wow they are going after those that are doing all the duplicating??

ummm my kid can barely get through the first level of some of these games and they have banned her account! I was in it earlier and the only thing I did was click on their ghost and now she can't log in!

Permanently banned for violating what?! I clicked on a ghost in the trade (only place I can find it) and now you ban her.

THANKS FOR NOTHING GANZ


She's not even six and you just made her completely upset now because she can't play.

she worked really hard today doing her school work just so she could have a couple extra hours to play and now.. nothing..

Working on new features? you mean the ones that don't work?? You didn't know?? Liar! I personally called and informed you of the particular website that was selling webkinz items over 9 months ago!! and you're just now getting around to it. Wow so many things just don't add up.......


In all honesty... if they keep this up I will be more than happy to ban Webkinz all together and when ever I go to my local retailer that sells webkinz, I will tell ANYONE buying not to and to go elsewhere. Like build a bearville. At least they treat their customers right..


I will be contacting Ganz tomorrow about my daughter's account... I will let you know what they say..

Also what is the difference if I buy an estore item and then find that I don't want it after all and all I want to do is at least get my money back (breaking even) by "selling" it to someone else that will enjoy it? I mean seriously. I have made some impulsive purchases only to find out I didn't like it and am now stuck with it.

I still have the code but I didn't enter it. If I could trade out the blasted thing at least I know that SOMEONE can be happy with it...

You can call ganz and tell ask them about what is going on with your kids account. They are usually pretty good with things like that. If you/your kids did nothing wrong they will usually reopen it.
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